@CameToPlay said:

@12_29_97_4eva said:

@lumpblockclod said:

@12_29_97_4eva said:

For the record, MSG1 Set 2 was one of my favorite sets of the year, but my opinion is that the show as a body of work doesn't belong in the Top 10, especially over a complete show like MPP1.

That's certainly a defensible view. As a group, we tend to favor tent-pole jams and complete second sets. When I look at MSG1 vs MPP1, I think the Gin, which is merely the second best jam of MSG1 would likely be the top jam of MPP1. As @J_D_G said, that's just incredibly hard to overcome. Having said that, if you read the intro, we also said that in many ways deciding between shows #5-14 was really tough and the order of those shows should be taken with a grain of salt.

I won't disagree with you about the 12/30 Gin and Chalkdust being better jams than the 8/15 46 Days and Piper. But then you're admitting that the only criteria we're using to judge a Phish show is the strength of its top jams. That's fine if we want to make that the criteria, but I don't think you or any of us really want to judge a Phish show strictly on that basis (I'm still sticking to Steinberg's criteria - jams, bustouts, antics...plus intangibles!).

Anyway, yes, you're right that shows 5-14 are generally a toss up, but some are a bit more of a toss up than others. You could also make the case 8/15 belongs in the Top 4 or 5. Debate is fun! Let's keep this going.

I don't think that is necessarily clear at all. Of course these things are a matter of preference, but Piper and 46 days are absolutely instrumental to the greatness of the show, and both are very strong versions. Among the best 3.0 versions of each song. I'm not knocking 12/30. It is in my top 10 also. For all my bellyaching, the 14 shows in the list might be my exact 14 shows, just in a different order. If not exact, very close.

We definitely share the view that Piper and 46 Days are instrumental to the greatness of 8/15. I was just conceding that you could compellingly make the case that head-to-head the 12/30 Gin and Chalkdust are stronger jams than the 8/15 Piper and 46 Days. However, that doesn't mean that 12/30 is a stronger show. It's not even close, quite frankly. 8/15 is a well-rounded monster and Piper and 46 Days play key roles in making it so. 12/30 Set II is fabulous - certainly my favorite set of the NYE run - but Set I is so obviously mediocre that as a total package I can't put it above 8/15.